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Supergirl TV show
#1
I just noticed this was premiering tonight. Anybody going to watch it? I haven't really been paying attention and don't know if this is something we should be psyched for.

It's on partially opposite Gotham, so I'll have to record it if I watch it.
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." --Thomas Jefferson

“Fascism should rightly be called corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” --Benito Mussolini
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#2
Not my cup of tea but the show is getting stellar reviews across the board. Everyone's gushing over how good it is
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#3
I'm not heavily committed to it (If something comes up I'll DVR instead of sticking around for it), but everything I've heard is that it's a well-made show that should be very enjoyable, so I plan on checking it out.
Life is like a roller coaster.  It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get one heck of a ride.

NationStates: The Associated Systems of Klonor

Equality is not a loss.
Quote
#4
Well, I watched it and....wow was that a mess, disappointing almost across the board.  I realize that a lot of the problems are probably because it's a pilot, which comes with inherent drawbacks that hopefully won't transfer to the rest of the series, but the cause is irrelevant: This was clichéd, poorly executed and unpleasant.  Going from start to end (Warning, of course, for spoilers and an overly pedantic critique):

The opening on Krypton, which already had both narration and dialogue exposition, was hampered by pretty atrocious acting by the mother and young-Kara.  Everything there was repeated close to half a dozen times throughout the rest of the episode and didn't need this extraneous, poorly-delivered scene, and since they kept this scene that makes all the repetitions pointless.

Kara's dissatisfaction with her life at the start of the episode is solely her fault, and I don't sympathize with her, I blame her.  There's nobody else telling her to hide her powers, no outside force keeping her down, we weren't shown her being raised by the asshole-Kents from Man of Steel that say it's better to let kids die than reveal herself, she explicitly narrates that she chose not to use her powers and is sad that this means she isn't widely know and adored.  If you want the respect that Superman gets, then do something like Superman.  A lot of people are disappointed with their lives because of 'what might have been' in the past, everybody has regrets, but she's in the moment of not-being and still complaining.

Then there's the ridiculous portrayal of Cat Grant that I find to be pretty misogynistic.  They make her out to be the cold, heartless corporate villain, and have Kara protest and stand up to her, but the problem with this portrayal is that we're apparently supposed to hate her for doing what seems to be a necessary corporate restructuring forced upon them by the market.  The Tribune that she is downsizing is Cat Grant's oldest media purchase, this isn't something that she bought just to shut it down (Which is a real-life evil corporate action), but the fact of the matter is that it's not making money, so she can't leave it open.  Money doesn't come from nowhere.  What does Kara (And, by extension, the audience) want her to do?  Downsize somebody else in her media empire so that she can use their salaries to keep paying the Tribune for not making money?  But because she's cold about and brusque when Kara protests, and isn't Warm and Nurturing like we all know women are supposed to be, the show wants us to hate her like Lex Luthor.  That bizarre presentation and her defense of the suffix '-girl' with a "What's wrong with calling somebody a girl?" spiel comes across like a caricature of a successful business woman, it's like when they try to show a woman 'controlling her sexuality' by making her a male masturbatory fantasy (Also, Cat, the problem isn't that there's something wrong with being a girl, the problem is the gender infantilization that comes from the application an age-and-maturity related term to people outside of those brackets.  She's a grown woman, both physically and emotionally mature, and should be accorded the respect that comes with that maturation, calling her a girl says that even though an adult she's still not grown-up yet.  Just like males switch from 'boy' to 'man', it's an acknowledgement of their growth).

Then there's James (Jimmy) Olsen.  I actually don't mind the name insistence, because the guy has to grow up eventually and I like that he's getting the respect he deserve for his photography, but I hate the way he was introduced with such arrogance.  Please note I'm being precise here: I don't mean self-confidence, I mean arrogance.  Kara's sent to get the new layouts for her boss (His boss as well) and he tells her that he will give them over when he's ready, and their boss can wait unless she wants to fire him just after hiring him.  When it is literally your first day on the job you do what the boss tells you.  When you say "I am too good to be gotten rid of, so I will not work to my boss's schedule", that's not an appreciation of your own value, that's arrogance.  After you have a working relationship, and you've earned leeway and special treatment, go right ahead, but step back until you do.  Not to mention that amazingly condescending story of why he's here and how, which has this ridiculously misogynistic background; Superman told James about his cousin and had James move to this city to watch over her without telling her about it.  Now, not only does this mean that Superman in effect outed her (They went very heavy into the "It's like coming out of the closet" when she revealed her identity, which I'll get into in the next paragraph down), but he apparently thought that his Kryptonian cousin (i.e. PERSON WITH SUPER POWERS!!!!) needed somebody to watch over and take care of her.  James explains this in the middle of a speech about how much faith Superman has in her, how he knew she had such great potential, but apparently not enough faith to believe that she wouldn't still need a man in her life, because that's all he can offer at this point.  This could have worked if Clark Kent had just mentioned to James that he has a cousin he felt could use looking after, confining this solely to her human life where a friend and guardian can come in handy (Especially given how poorly Kara handles her human life, see below), but it's not Clark Kent talking about his most-definitely-a-human cousin, it's Superman talking about his fellow Kryptonian cousin.

Kara's work-mate Winslow Schott (BTW: I had no idea what his name was after the episode ended, I had to look it up) is already creepy with his "I'm totally in love you but I'll stay friends because I'm waiting until you love me back" (Seriously, haven't we gotten past this character?).  Not to mention his cringe-worthy "You're a lesbian!" remark when she was telling him her secret (I knew it was coming, I called it, and I shuddered when it happened regardless).  Kara tells him her secret identity after we have seen them have literally one scene together, and that at work.  What makes him so trustworthy?  There's no reference to "I like that we work together because we've actually been friends for years" or "We had this amazing bonding experience after we started working here that explains my trust in you", he's just a friend from work that she feels she can trust with this life-altering secret.  Then, after that, he works for a media conglomerate, why the hell can he design complex-polymer fabrics for her costume?  That's literally not even given a lip-service explanation, he just can.  I'm sure it will eventually be revealed that he's the Toyman (Something I didn't realize until after I looked up his name on-line after the show finished), but that's not something conveyed here.

Her start of heroism is also really cheap and a problem I have with a lot of start-of-heroism stories.  She saved that plane because her sister was on it, what would she have done if her sister wasn't involved?  Let them all die?  Would she have even cared?  A superhero's ability to detach themselves from total responsibility is a great story, they can't be responsible for everybody everywhere,  but we get her having no responsibility for the public at all.  She helps out herself and her loved ones and that's it, and only then decides to keep hero-ing.  And then, out of nowhere (Because it hadn't been brought up before at all), her sister starts into the "You can't be a hero, it's dangerous, don't help anybody again" speech.  You would have died without her.  You and hundreds of others.  Talk about the dangers, talk about the precautions she needs to take, talk about the risks, but don't say she shouldn't do it at all.

Then comes the DEO with this weird, self-defeating agenda.  Here they have an alien in their base, somebody with powers and knowledge that they want and who wants to work with them, and they say no.  She doesn't have skills, okay, fine then train her.  She's too visible in her costume, okay, fine then give her something else to wear.  Her mere presence is an indication of aliens, okay, fine, then do some basic damn camouflage.  Give her a @#%ing backpack that shoots out smoke so you can say she flies with a jet-pack or something.  This is the honest-to-god dream of every single government agency in the DC Universe who are threatened by Superman's presence and mistrust him, a Kryptonian asking to work for you (Not with 'with' you, for you), and they're saying 'no' for no good reason.

Then there's Vartox and, seriously, this is the most un-Vartox being in existence.  I honestly don't see how they could have made a more un-Vartox character unless they just didn't name him Vartox, because that's it.  There is nothing Vartox about him.  Not his aesthetic, not his powers, not his personality, not his goal, not his history, not even his species.  He's scared off from killing Kara by a helicopter (A helicopter.  You're fighting a Kryptonian, their weapons should maybe tickle a little), but then later the DEO doesn't send in their armed personnel to deal with him later, instead sending in Kara against their wishes because she's the only option they have (If a helicopter is too much for him, just @#$%ing missile him and be done with it).

Kara herself feels like this throwback to a '90's You-Go-Girl character, who's Tough and Determined, except not really so that she can still be helped by the men around her.  When she charges in to yell at Cat Grant over the name 'Supergirl' (See above) Cat's about to fire her for the attitude, and despite the fact that I agree with Kara about the name I would do the same thing as Cat in her shoes (I suppose I might have let it just be a warning this one time, but it'd be a tough choice.  When you literally yell at your boss and criticize what they've done, and can't even articulate your thoughts in a concise manner, you're gone).  Then James comes in and saves her job (Singlehandedly.  He flat-out lies to Cat that Kara got them a photo of Supergirl) and afterwards she's all tiffy about "I could have handled it" except that no, she couldn't, Cat had already said she was firing her.  You were gone, out of a job, and because you were fired due to the way you spoke to your boss there's a good chance you're going to be denied unemployment as well.  She doesn't even seem to realize that she did anything wrong or that the problem was in how she presented herself.  Also, why is she even working as a secretary at all?  She talks about how she wanted to be somebody normally, but she seems to have no aspirations, no references to having a degree or working towards one, never asks to have more responsibility or duties at work, nothing more than being 'just' an assistant.  Not to be clichéd, but what does she want to do with her life?  Completely irrespective of being Superman, Clark Kent is a renowned reporter.  Oliver Queen ran a business empire, Helena Bertinelli was a teacher, Bruce Wayne heads several charitable organizations, Barbara Gordon was @#$%ing US Senator once.  Kara gets somebody else coffee and doesn't seem to want anything more except to 'be somebody' without definition or effort.  She's not a person at the bottom of the ladder starting her climb to the top, she's somebody who stopped climbing and is bitching at the world for not giving her the top of the ladder.

Now, with all that said (And, believe it or not, a lot that I left out), there is still (some) potential here.  The cast is actually amazingly superb, and some of that managed to shine through despite the horrible material they were given.  Kara and James have great chemistry, and Kara and her sister have some chemistry, and...uh...well, there's still some other good actors there, so they can make it work if they're given enough.  The color pallet is infinitely brighter than Man of Steel (Ugh, I still hate that movie), and they at least get the respect and iconography of Superman right (That picture James has, of Superman flying, really is fantastic).

I just...I wanted to like this show so much, I really did, and all the good reviews had gotten me really hopeful.  But it was just a letdown from start to finish.
Life is like a roller coaster.  It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get one heck of a ride.

NationStates: The Associated Systems of Klonor

Equality is not a loss.
Quote
#5
Yeah... bad writing, bad acting, and a plot that was utterly predictable in every instance.

The plane-saving scene was the only moment in the episode I was invested in. I thought (hoped) it would start to get good at that point, but I was wrong. The show was obviously trying for the tone and feel of the Christopher Reeve Supermans, but missed by a wide margin.

It's like there's some kind of conspiracy to sabotage female superheroes with universally crappy writing.
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." --Thomas Jefferson

“Fascism should rightly be called corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” --Benito Mussolini
Quote
#6
(10-27-2015, 03:01 AM)AndrewCrossett Wrote:  The plane-saving scene was the only moment in the episode I was invested in. I thought (hoped) it would start to get good at that point, but I was wrong. The show was obviously trying for the tone and feel of the Christopher Reeve Supermans, but missed by a wide margin.

Aye, the actual scene of her saving the plane was one of the better events, but even that bothered me. For example, Kara didn't even have to make the slight sacrifice of cutting a date short for the rescue (Which is, admittedly, an extremely clichéd development), they conveniently had the asshole prove himself an asshole and walk off, leaving her unoccupied so she had literally no drawback to ducking out. Thusly, there's no conflict between morality and personal desire, or even between two conflicting directives. Having a Super save a crashing plane as their first act of heroism is one of the singularly iconic moments of the Superman mythos (As James actually referred to), but it's handled so much better in other installments.

For example, in Superman: The Animated Series, Superman is in the midst of chasing Corben and his mercenaries after they had stolen the LexoSuit 5000, when one of their missiles downs a plane. It's the obvious right choice to save the plane and the hundreds (Thousands?) of civilians that would have died as it plummeted into the city, but by doing so he still lost track of Corben, allowing him to escape with the prototype. He had to make the choice, had to decide which he wanted to be: The guy who went after the villain no matter the cost, or the guy who saved everybody he could regardless of the difficulty. Additionally, it's actually (tangentially) his fault that the plane is going down, as without his efforts to stop them Corben and his men wouldn't have been launching missiles, so it illustrates that there are risks and dangers to his heroics that he'll need to compensate for, and he'll need to be ready for disasters to come from his efforts to help. That was all done and represented without needing to have somebody blatantly explain it to him. Kara isn't presented with any kind of dilemma like that throughout the episode, her only choices are between "hero" and "Asshole who stands by and does nothing."
Life is like a roller coaster.  It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get one heck of a ride.

NationStates: The Associated Systems of Klonor

Equality is not a loss.
Quote
#7
Also... why is the potential existence of aliens considered crackpot in this universe, when everyone knows about Superman?

Also... how did the Procedural Guys take Kara out with a knockout dart when her Kryptonian skin can't be pierced?

Also... how the hell could a tiny one-person spacecraft pull the city-sized Fort Rozz out of the Phantom Zone?

Vartox... isn't he the skeevy guy who's always trying to score with Power Girl?
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." --Thomas Jefferson

“Fascism should rightly be called corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” --Benito Mussolini
Quote
#8
(10-27-2015, 03:56 AM)AndrewCrossett Wrote:  Also... why is the potential existence of aliens considered crackpot in this universe, when everyone knows about Superman?

And how did the mass of alien criminals apparently assimilate into human society smoothly enough to still be considered crackpot while also being able to set up what seems to be a subversive irganization?

Quote:Also... how did the Procedural Guys take Kara out with a knockout dart when her Kryptonian skin can't be pierced?

They actually addressed that by saying they were kryptonite darts, but why would they use them in their initial contact instead of first trying to talk to her so as to keep them as a secret weapon? Why would they explain what they were to her, revealing their sole advantage and giving her information on how to counteract it?

Quote:Also... how the hell could a tiny one-person spacecraft pull the city-sized Fort Rozz out of the Phantom Zone?

More importantly, how do they know anything about that? How do they even know the term 'Phantom Zone'? Did Kara's sister reveal all of her secrets in a huge and crushing violation of trust?

Quote:Vartox... isn't he the skeevy guy who's always trying to score with Power Girl?

Inded he is. This guy. This $&@%ing guy!

[Image: Vartox_(New_Earth)_001.png]
Life is like a roller coaster.  It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get one heck of a ride.

NationStates: The Associated Systems of Klonor

Equality is not a loss.
Quote
#9
I'm confused.Critics are saying the show got everything right but you two are saying it got everything wrong. I wonder if your consensus is common among comic book fans but not the mainstream media.

(10-27-2015, 02:51 AM)JBK405 Wrote:  Well, I watched it and....wow was that a mess, disappointing almost across the board. I realize that a lot of the problems are probably because it's a pilot, which comes with inherent drawbacks that hopefully won't transfer to the rest of the series, but the cause is irrelevant: This was clichéd, poorly executed and unpleasant. Going from start to end (Warning, of course, for spoilers and an overly pedantic critique):

The opening on Krypton, which already had both narration and dialogue exposition, was hampered by pretty atrocious acting by the mother and young-Kara. Everything there was repeated close to half a dozen times throughout the rest of the episode and didn't need this extraneous, poorly-delivered scene, and since they kept this scene that makes all the repetitions pointless.

Kara's dissatisfaction with her life at the start of the episode is solely her fault, and I don't sympathize with her, I blame her. There's nobody else telling her to hide her powers, no outside force keeping her down, we weren't shown her being raised by the asshole-Kents from Man of Steel that say it's better to let kids die than reveal herself, she explicitly narrates that she chose not to use her powers and is sad that this means she isn't widely know and adored. If you want the respect that Superman gets, then do something like Superman. A lot of people are disappointed with their lives because of 'what might have been' in the past, everybody has regrets, but she's in the moment of not-being and still complaining.

Then there's the ridiculous portrayal of Cat Grant that I find to be pretty misogynistic. They make her out to be the cold, heartless corporate villain, and have Kara protest and stand up to her, but the problem with this portrayal is that we're apparently supposed to hate her for doing what seems to be a necessary corporate restructuring forced upon them by the market. The Tribune that she is downsizing is Cat Grant's oldest media purchase, this isn't something that she bought just to shut it down (Which is a real-life evil corporate action), but the fact of the matter is that it's not making money, so she can't leave it open. Money doesn't come from nowhere. What does Kara (And, by extension, the audience) want her to do? Downsize somebody else in her media empire so that she can use their salaries to keep paying the Tribune for not making money? But because she's cold about and brusque when Kara protests, and isn't Warm and Nurturing like we all know women are supposed to be, the show wants us to hate her like Lex Luthor. That bizarre presentation and her defense of the suffix '-girl' with a "What's wrong with calling somebody a girl?" spiel comes across like a caricature of a successful business woman, it's like when they try to show a woman 'controlling her sexuality' by making her a male masturbatory fantasy (Also, Cat, the problem isn't that there's something wrong with being a girl, the problem is the gender infantilization that comes from the application an age-and-maturity related term to people outside of those brackets. She's a grown woman, both physically and emotionally mature, and should be accorded the respect that comes with that maturation, calling her a girl says that even though an adult she's still not grown-up yet. Just like males switch from 'boy' to 'man', it's an acknowledgement of their growth).

Then there's James (Jimmy) Olsen. I actually don't mind the name insistence, because the guy has to grow up eventually and I like that he's getting the respect he deserve for his photography, but I hate the way he was introduced with such arrogance. Please note I'm being precise here: I don't mean self-confidence, I mean arrogance. Kara's sent to get the new layouts for her boss (His boss as well) and he tells her that he will give them over when he's ready, and their boss can wait unless she wants to fire him just after hiring him. When it is literally your first day on the job you do what the boss tells you. When you say "I am too good to be gotten rid of, so I will not work to my boss's schedule", that's not an appreciation of your own value, that's arrogance. After you have a working relationship, and you've earned leeway and special treatment, go right ahead, but step back until you do. Not to mention that amazingly condescending story of why he's here and how, which has this ridiculously misogynistic background; Superman told James about his cousin and had James move to this city to watch over her without telling her about it. Now, not only does this mean that Superman in effect outed her (They went very heavy into the "It's like coming out of the closet" when she revealed her identity, which I'll get into in the next paragraph down), but he apparently thought that his Kryptonian cousin (i.e. PERSON WITH SUPER POWERS!!!!) needed somebody to watch over and take care of her. James explains this in the middle of a speech about how much faith Superman has in her, how he knew she had such great potential, but apparently not enough faith to believe that she wouldn't still need a man in her life, because that's all he can offer at this point. This could have worked if Clark Kent had just mentioned to James that he has a cousin he felt could use looking after, confining this solely to her human life where a friend and guardian can come in handy (Especially given how poorly Kara handles her human life, see below), but it's not Clark Kent talking about his most-definitely-a-human cousin, it's Superman talking about his fellow Kryptonian cousin.

Kara's work-mate Winslow Schott (BTW: I had no idea what his name was after the episode ended, I had to look it up) is already creepy with his "I'm totally in love you but I'll stay friends because I'm waiting until you love me back" (Seriously, haven't we gotten past this character?). Not to mention his cringe-worthy "You're a lesbian!" remark when she was telling him her secret (I knew it was coming, I called it, and I shuddered when it happened regardless). Kara tells him her secret identity after we have seen them have literally one scene together, and that at work. What makes him so trustworthy? There's no reference to "I like that we work together because we've actually been friends for years" or "We had this amazing bonding experience after we started working here that explains my trust in you", he's just a friend from work that she feels she can trust with this life-altering secret. Then, after that, he works for a media conglomerate, why the hell can he design complex-polymer fabrics for her costume? That's literally not even given a lip-service explanation, he just can. I'm sure it will eventually be revealed that he's the Toyman (Something I didn't realize until after I looked up his name on-line after the show finished), but that's not something conveyed here.

Her start of heroism is also really cheap and a problem I have with a lot of start-of-heroism stories. She saved that plane because her sister was on it, what would she have done if her sister wasn't involved? Let them all die? Would she have even cared? A superhero's ability to detach themselves from total responsibility is a great story, they can't be responsible for everybody everywhere, but we get her having no responsibility for the public at all. She helps out herself and her loved ones and that's it, and only then decides to keep hero-ing. And then, out of nowhere (Because it hadn't been brought up before at all), her sister starts into the "You can't be a hero, it's dangerous, don't help anybody again" speech. You would have died without her. You and hundreds of others. Talk about the dangers, talk about the precautions she needs to take, talk about the risks, but don't say she shouldn't do it at all.

Then comes the DEO with this weird, self-defeating agenda. Here they have an alien in their base, somebody with powers and knowledge that they want and who wants to work with them, and they say no. She doesn't have skills, okay, fine then train her. She's too visible in her costume, okay, fine then give her something else to wear. Her mere presence is an indication of aliens, okay, fine, then do some basic damn camouflage. Give her a @#%ing backpack that shoots out smoke so you can say she flies with a jet-pack or something. This is the honest-to-god dream of every single government agency in the DC Universe who are threatened by Superman's presence and mistrust him, a Kryptonian asking to work for you (Not with 'with' you, for you), and they're saying 'no' for no good reason.

Then there's Vartox and, seriously, this is the most un-Vartox being in existence. I honestly don't see how they could have made a more un-Vartox character unless they just didn't name him Vartox, because that's it. There is nothing Vartox about him. Not his aesthetic, not his powers, not his personality, not his goal, not his history, not even his species. He's scared off from killing Kara by a helicopter (A helicopter. You're fighting a Kryptonian, their weapons should maybe tickle a little), but then later the DEO doesn't send in their armed personnel to deal with him later, instead sending in Kara against their wishes because she's the only option they have (If a helicopter is too much for him, just @#$%ing missile him and be done with it).

Kara herself feels like this throwback to a '90's You-Go-Girl character, who's Tough and Determined, except not really so that she can still be helped by the men around her. When she charges in to yell at Cat Grant over the name 'Supergirl' (See above) Cat's about to fire her for the attitude, and despite the fact that I agree with Kara about the name I would do the same thing as Cat in her shoes (I suppose I might have let it just be a warning this one time, but it'd be a tough choice. When you literally yell at your boss and criticize what they've done, and can't even articulate your thoughts in a concise manner, you're gone). Then James comes in and saves her job (Singlehandedly. He flat-out lies to Cat that Kara got them a photo of Supergirl) and afterwards she's all tiffy about "I could have handled it" except that no, she couldn't, Cat had already said she was firing her. You were gone, out of a job, and because you were fired due to the way you spoke to your boss there's a good chance you're going to be denied unemployment as well. She doesn't even seem to realize that she did anything wrong or that the problem was in how she presented herself. Also, why is she even working as a secretary at all? She talks about how she wanted to be somebody normally, but she seems to have no aspirations, no references to having a degree or working towards one, never asks to have more responsibility or duties at work, nothing more than being 'just' an assistant. Not to be clichéd, but what does she want to do with her life? Completely irrespective of being Superman, Clark Kent is a renowned reporter. Oliver Queen ran a business empire, Helena Bertinelli was a teacher, Bruce Wayne heads several charitable organizations, Barbara Gordon was @#$%ing US Senator once. Kara gets somebody else coffee and doesn't seem to want anything more except to 'be somebody' without definition or effort. She's not a person at the bottom of the ladder starting her climb to the top, she's somebody who stopped climbing and is bitching at the world for not giving her the top of the ladder.

Now, with all that said (And, believe it or not, a lot that I left out), there is still (some) potential here. The cast is actually amazingly superb, and some of that managed to shine through despite the horrible material they were given. Kara and James have great chemistry, and Kara and her sister have some chemistry, and...uh...well, there's still some other good actors there, so they can make it work if they're given enough. The color pallet is infinitely brighter than Man of Steel (Ugh, I still hate that movie), and they at least get the respect and iconography of Superman right (That picture James has, of Superman flying, really is fantastic).

I just...I wanted to like this show so much, I really did, and all the good reviews had gotten me really hopeful. But it was just a letdown from start to finish.

I'm going to fortify myself with a cup of java and read all that. It's like a workout that going to be so demanding you need to eat right before it and after.
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#10
Vartox returns in the Power Girl ongoing series. All the women of Valeron have recently been made sterile by a "contraceptive bomb", prompting Vartox to search for the best female specimen in the universe, so that they may mate and repopulate Valeron. Selecting Power Girl as the prime candidate, Vartox comes to Earth, staging a fight with an Ix Negaspike, a creature that is indestructible, in an attempt to woo her. However, Power Girl accidentally breaks Vartox' containment device, making it impossible to send the Negaspike back. She attempts to stop the Negaspike by freezing and shattering it, only for the pieces to reform into a swarm of Negaspikes.[2] Realizing that the Negaspike's intelligence is split between its parts, Power Girl and Vartox freeze and shatter all the individual Negaspikes, reducing their copies to "indestructible space-cows", before freezing them again and throwing them into space. Vartox then invites Power Girl to dinner, and she accepts. After Vartox describes his people's predicament, he has Power Girl enter a "fertility chamber", which combines their life-forces to send out a "pregno-ray" to Valeron, making all the females and males pregnant. His mission complete, Vartox departs.[3]

I never heard of the guy before. He reminds me of Maxima from the era when I read Superman.  Assuming the above is correct, story sounds way too crazy to be real BUT all comic book stories sound crazy if you write a summary of it. 
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#11
Not only is that correct, it's actually a tame recreation of events. Vartox is....man, he is something special. He's actually based in part on Sean Connery's character from Zardoz (yeah, that movie) and when handled correctly he is just this ridiculous character that can actually be fun (His presence in Power Girl that you just described is perfect in all the right ways). The thing is, in this episode this is the most un-Vartox character I can possible imagine. It'd be like...hmmm....I'm thinking of an analogy.....it'd be like if you called Dr. Doom 'Batman'. They just don't connect at all; different looks, different powers, different motivations, different allegiances, different everything. In fact, Doom/Batman is actually less wrong, because at least they're both into superscience. There is literally nothing connecting these characters except the fact that they're both named Vartox (Oh, yeah, they're both male, so I guess there's that. That's really it).



Life is like a roller coaster.  It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get one heck of a ride.

NationStates: The Associated Systems of Klonor

Equality is not a loss.
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#12
(10-27-2015, 04:23 AM)JBK405 Wrote:  They actually addressed that by saying they were kryptonite darts, but why would they use them in their initial contact instead of first trying to talk to her so as to keep them as a secret weapon?  Why would they explain what they were to her, revealing their sole advantage and giving her information on how to counteract it?

I don't remember that they were kryptonite darts, just that the shackles holding Kara to the gurney were kryptonite.

(10-27-2015, 04:23 AM)JBK405 Wrote:  More importantly, how do they know anything about that?  How do they even know the term 'Phantom Zone'?  Did Kara's sister reveal all of her secrets in a huge and crushing violation of trust?

They must have had a surveillance camera in the Phantom Zone. Undecided

And wouldn't an object the size of Fort Rozz striking the earth cause worldwide devastation?

I don't know what the critics saw in the episode, frankly. The dialogue was all right down the middle of the page, like the actors were reading a transcript of a Silver Age comic. That doesn't work on TV. I don't recall a single clever turn of phrase or memorable line. All the characters were tropes and everything they said was predictable cliche. I wasn't surprised once.

I know there are multiple writers on a show, and hopefully the others are better than this one. But my Monday nights are already crowded enough so I'm not really going out of my way looking for more shows to watch.
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." --Thomas Jefferson

“Fascism should rightly be called corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” --Benito Mussolini
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#13
(10-27-2015, 11:41 AM)Lester C Wrote:  I'm confused.Critics are saying the show got everything right but you two are saying it got everything wrong. I wonder if your consensus is common among comic book fans but not the mainstream media.

The thing is, apart from my complaints over the Vartox character none of my issues stem from differences/comparisons to the comic books, these are all writing/acting/character issues. Stuff that should be apparent even to people who've never read the comics at all since they're sub-par all on their own.

Like Andrew just said, I don't understand what it was that the critics saw in this episode that I missed.
Life is like a roller coaster.  It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get one heck of a ride.

NationStates: The Associated Systems of Klonor

Equality is not a loss.
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#14
Also, I just saw this post elsewhere on-line:

"I just have a lot of thoughts about Supergirl… and not all of them are bad."

That says a whole lot.
Life is like a roller coaster.  It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get one heck of a ride.

NationStates: The Associated Systems of Klonor

Equality is not a loss.
Quote
#15
Maybe it's the promise. Unlike the comic, which in the direct market is written by adult men for adult men, even if the creative team aiming for a broader auidence, because the story on TV it's finally going to be accesable to young women and girls they way it was meant too. I feel it has the potential to be something really special and I might even watch it later on Netflix for something as a bonding experience with my niece. That's really cool.
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#16
I had no expectations going in regarding faithfulness to the comics... in fact, I don't think I've ever read a Supergirl comic. My issues with the episode are ones I would have with any episode of any show.

I guess I need different things from a TV show than most people do.
"I hope we shall crush in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." --Thomas Jefferson

“Fascism should rightly be called corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power.” --Benito Mussolini
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#17
Before I quit comics in 2006 there are many good Supergirl comics just nothing that my niece could read. Take Peter David's run was extremely good extremely dark as well great for adults with little girls not so much.
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#18
I'm going to be honest and say that I saw most of the pilot online a little while back (I didn't have time to see the end) and I thought it was brilliiant.

I can't wait until Thursday for the show to appear on UK screens. Sky 1 at 8pm. Yippee!

From the half hour or so I saw, it was well worth watching.
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#19
I'm wondering if the leaked pilot was somehow different than what made it to air, because you're not the first person I know who's said they liked that when they saw it on-line. Let us know if there's any changes, okay?
Life is like a roller coaster.  It has its ups and downs, but if you sit back and relax you get one heck of a ride.

NationStates: The Associated Systems of Klonor

Equality is not a loss.
Quote
#20
The show had the most amount of viewers ever for a superhero show even more than agent of shield. There is even a full season trailer up.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/supergirl-full-season-trailer-released-debut-episo/1100-6431776/
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